RG, Monster where are you guys???

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RG, Monster where are you guys???

Postby Hado on Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:25 am

Monster, I realize that RG only has a couple days left on the game, but where is he? Has he completely given up on playing already? I've been doing a lot of missions and I've got 300k+ saved up to buy materials so that we can get our homes in place. Since you're his friend in RL, can you ask him for a list of materials needed and the amount, so that we can get it to him as soon as possible? Also for a factory to manufacture stims and upcoming weapons..
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Postby MFalcon on Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:20 am

Yea I am kind of curious where our fearless leader has gone off to? I thought with this being our official game everyone would be playing it more, I know Hado, Wynn, JHKY and myself are putting in the time to get our chars up to par. I also have a friend from work who is interested in our clan and working together to provide and create a community in SWG. Hes interested in being a droid/architect.
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Postby Monster on Mon Jul 21, 2003 3:37 pm

Sorry, with the combination of being fed up with the horrible changes to SWG, and the arrival of KOTOR I haven't been on. Mostly due to playing KOTOR though.

I'm one box away from master marksman though so I'm not too far behind.
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Postby RGDelta on Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:19 pm

Sorry guys I just got so wrapped up in the Anarchy Online Shadowlands Beta that I have not even logged back in. Not sure if I will be back before my account expires. Looks like you guys might have an architect coming I apologize but Monster knows how I can be sometimes and how addicting AO can be to me he might not understand why but oh well :-)
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Postby Wynn on Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:10 am

You jerks!

Well I've been playing an hour or two a day. Nothing too intensive. I like exploring and seeing different monsters and trying to tame one of everything. Meanwhile Hado is like WTF U DOING LETS GO KILL TEHSE MBS THEY R 1337 XP. Sorry man, I haven't been powerleveling. I am just checking out the game and having fun taming creatures. I made Master Scout yesterday, though.
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Postby Monster on Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:56 pm

Yeah, powerlevelling in MMORPG's is kinda lame.

On the other hand, this game is nothing but levelling or exploring. I mean, I thought these guys were industry veterans? Yet they managed to make an MMORPG with less content than any other (save AC2 possibly). I don't know why they didn't just make UO in space.

Right now all there is to do is:
1) Kill a monster, kill the lair. Repeat. Reward: XP and Money
2) Socialize. Reward: Not being bored?
3) Make stuff. Reward: XP and Money.
4) Tame stuff. Reward: It's fun to mess around with pets.
5) PVP. Kinda. Once you join a faction you can gank in Starports. Reward: Faction points.

What does every other MMORPG have that this one doesn't (once again, other than AC2, which was a shitty game)?

LOOT.

These "veterans" have forgotten that the driving force behind every RPG, even PnP ones, is LOOT. People want bigger and better stuff. But the only way to get bigger and better stuff is for others to make it, and the bigger and better stuff isn't that impressive.

SWG is basically Diablo with EQ difficulty minus the rewards.

Let's compare games to SWG:

UO: My personal favorite MMORPG of all time. Has made other MMORPGs look like crap to me. What did UO have from the very beginning? Loot AND player crafting. You know you have a good chance of some loot when you kill a monster. Lots of dungeons, all filled with loot. Rideables AND ships. Lots of things to decorate a house with that actually work (SWG doesn't even have working chests for your house... they are just static decorations). Plus NPC vendors to sell to and buy necessities. And you could be anything you wanted from the start. Want to be a mage? Practice magery. Want to use a sword? Practice using it. Want to be a tamer? Practice taming. Does it make sense in SWG that to be a tamer you have to slaughter thousands of animals first? What the duh?

EQ: Huge worlds littered with dungeons and points of interest. Loot, loot and "uber" loot. You knew if you were fighting something badass there was going to be loot. "Named" NPC's you could fight. This causes camping. So what? The solution is not to remove loot and named NPC's altogether. Duh.

DAOC: Same as EQ, but add in PVP, which was pretty good I hear. I never made it that far though, the game was too much like EQ for my liking.

AC2: Same as SWG but without forced player interdependence and had no reason for "towns". But even AC2 might have had loot (I couldn't stomach it long enough to know).

Diablo: Nothing but fighting, but the fighting was fun, and the loot was great. Wouldn't a random weapon generation system work great in an MMORPG? Oh wait, it did. UO had that too.

Can you see my beef with SWG yet? I'm an MMORPG veteran, having played pretty much all of them. SWG has no content. It has extremely poor design in many areas. Combat is too difficult/lasts too long for a Star Wars game. There's no reason to kill something other than for experience. The only reason to explore is to see pretty landscapes. And the levelling system is pretty weak. "Oh, I levelled up! I get +10 to a worthless skill! Great."

So you spend all your time levelling and when you are finally maxed, then what do you do? Killing stuff suddenly becomes all about the money. But I'm sure you'll have plenty of money. What to do next? There's NOTHING TO DO in this game! You could get a team together and fight krayt dragons maybe. For what? Some hide?

This game MIGHT be good in like 2 years, after lots of content updates and the space expansion. I don't believe this "give it 6 months" crap. They might be adding vehicles in a couple months. So you'll be able to get somewhere quicker. So what. Will the vehicles handle realistically? Or will they just handle like a bigger PC? Will we be able to race them, or will they be useless in that aspect? Will we even be able to make slower or quicker ones, ones with better handling than others? Will handling even be a factor? I highly doubt this incompetent team will add vehicles properly. They didn't do much else right!
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Postby Wynn on Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:13 pm

What about battlefields? Have you even tried them?
What about dungeons? Oh yeah they're broken.
What about treasure maps? Oh yeah they're broken.

There is some loot (skill enhancers) you can get, but so far I've only found a couple and they were useless to me. More loot would be good! They're definitely trying to focus more on a player-driven system than a game-driven system.. which is pretty lame because then the macro-crafters are uber and the combat people are just consumers.

So, monster, are you saying you are quitting this game and/or we should all quit this game?
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Postby Monster on Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:33 pm

I don't know yet. I haven't actually had a desire to play it in a while. I really wish they hadn't ruined such an anticipated game. It could have been so much better.

And no, I haven't tried battlefields. I assume that there aren't many people on them (the PVP ones). You have all this space limited to just 3000 players at once. That's just lame.

If they opened a server where anyone had a FS slot I think I would have more fun. That is, if Jedi are even worth anything in this game anyway...I could totally see them making them weak. I don't know why so many developers think that weak=balance.

In any case, maybe it was a mistake to start playing this game within the first few months of release. Crafters still suck and can never make something good enough yet. Droids are worthless because hardly anyone can make a good one. They nerfed shit so much at release that everyone still sucks. You can't get what you want, when you want.
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Postby Hado on Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:15 pm

I should cut ur sacks off
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Postby MFalcon on Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:45 pm

You can't get what you want, when you want.


Isn't that the point of every MMORPG to date? To limit the speed at which people attain thier skills and thier items and to continue to keep the "challenge". I think the character is the only challenge in the end anyway. Afterall folks, we are talking about an RPG here! This isn't Fighter Ace 3.5, Counter-Strike, or Nox. All of those games gauage the player's ability to adapt to thier environment and use thier real skill. In RPGs its all numbers and the "real skill" is taken out and replaced by a big calculator. The higher your numerator the better chance you stand when facing the denominator.

After your character is complete, your skills are maxed, and you know how to use them effectively what do you have left? Collect more loot? Go kill more stuff? Make more stuff? Get a house? Or is the house considered loot? The only thing you have left is the actual gaming experience. You either enjoy your time with the best character built or you don't. I wish this were a game of high customization between classes and instant action after selection.. but this isn't. This is an RPG.

See gentlemen.. perhaps everyone is having a 'Great Awakening' or we have reached the 'Age of Enlightenment' when it comes to MMORPGs.. but I have known about this shit since my days in UO. You either love to level and gain skills or you don't and if your looking for something else you bought the wrong product.

Currently, I can't see why everyone is bitching. My goal in this game is simply to max out my ONE character to thier fullest extent. After that is complete, I will play them to thier fullest abilities. In my case I will craft extremely powerful weapons for myself and others, perhaps open a shop for this, while at the same time enjoying PVP as a sniper. I don't anticipate myself gathering tons of loot or following a monthly storyline, all of that shit is filler.

I also want to interject something that hasn't been mention..

I paid 42 bucks for this product that was being revered by so many of you during beta and was decided as our official game. I am sticking by this product no matter how many flaws occur. I will ride this "titanic" all the way down to the ocean's bottom before abandoning ship.
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Postby Hado on Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:01 pm

What the guy with the chipped tooth said.
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Postby Monster on Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:42 pm

In UO I could get what I wanted when I wanted. I had runes for tons of armor shops, furniture shops, whatever. Because the game had been out for a while.

Unless I was looking for special loot of course...like vanquishing weapons. Those were harder to find.

BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOT!

THERE'S NO LOOT IN THIS GAME! The only reason ANYTHING is hard to find right now is because nobody has maxed their character yet. In 2 months people will be able to buy anything they want.

The point of a GOOD MMORPG is to have content to keep players busy. Not to slow down how fast they level. That's a half-ass newbie way to design a game. In UO you could get very powerful after a week. Sure, it might take longer to GM, but that was pretty much the only slow part (unless you were a tamer).

And you plan to play a "sniper" in PVP? With what? A rifle that shoots every 6 seconds and can't hit someone who isn't 30 or more meters away? And has the same range as a pistol? You will get owned by pistoleers, simple as that. Everyone gets owned by pistoleers in combat. If you are talking a battle and not a duel, maybe you'll get lucky and find a place to hide while you are picking people off. Just pray they don't understand how to use the tab button and their radar, because you'll show up on it.

In RPGs its all numbers and the "real skill" is taken out and replaced by a big calculator.


That's not true. In some MMORPG's (UO and DAOC) there is skill involved in PVP. Hell, I was able to outrun fireballs and arrows in UO (and it was funny to watch). There was LOTS of skill involved in that game.

perhaps everyone is having a 'Great Awakening' or we have reached the 'Age of Enlightenment' when it comes to MMORPG


I think it's more like the "Dark Ages". Everyone wants to copy the shitty EQ model. Suits see that it's hard to level, which causes all these losers to sit at their computers drooling while they compusively level, which keeps people paying the monthly fee, so they think it should be done with their game too. Never mind that there are still people playing UO that have from the beginning. It's the same reason they only have one character per server. MONEY.

And the devs made it harder to level at the end of beta because they had no content. Have to keep people playing until we can add content!

I had faith the developers would fix things. Would fix balance. Would realize that "Hey, everyone is bitching about this being nerfed, maybe we should fix it!". Nope. I have no faith in them anymore. I lost my last bit of faith in them the day they nerfed group faction across the board (not only with delivery but destroy missions) and raised faction costs to boot. That day they destroyed the most interesting part of the game for me. But that day I realized they will never understand how to balance and they will always use a sledgehammer to "fix" anything. I thought it might change in final. It makes sense to make drastic changes in beta but in release that's really bad business.

BTW I still haven't said I'm going to quit playing. And I paid like $75 for mine so cry me a freakin river.
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Postby MFalcon on Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:16 pm

And I paid like $75 for mine so cry me a freakin river.


You missed my point, we paid cash for the game that isn't growing off a fucking money tree. If our plan as a clan is to simply round up the troops for a game.. play a few weeks.. and then bitch about it and quit, then perhaps I understand why I never went full throttle on a game with you before.

That's not true. In some MMORPG's (UO and DAOC) there is skill involved in PVP. Hell, I was able to outrun fireballs and arrows in UO (and it was funny to watch). There was LOTS of skill involved in that game.


Actually UO didn't require that much skill. You had to use programs like UO Extreme or UOAssist to be decent in combat since UO lacked the ability to actually track targets and allow the player to target themselves for healing potions and heal spells. They finally implemented these in the later stages of the game, say by the fourth year. Recalling to safety during a fight was also a burden unless you had the above mentioned programs that could keep track of your rune stones. UO's combat was simple.. if your a mage.. you'd use magic arrow, corp por, explosion, corp por. In the later stages of the game it became a game of tracking what buffs your opponent placed on you with spells like weaken and strength, ect. You also had to use light heal more often than using greater heal. It doesn't take that much skill to really learn that. And UO still required players to GM thier characters to be decent in combat and it still required tons of work and hours of bullshit macroing. So sing me a song about how great it was.

And you plan to play a "sniper" in PVP? With what? A rifle that shoots every 6 seconds and can't hit someone who isn't 30 or more meters away?


Actually Hado has allowed me to borrow his sliced and upgraded laser rifle that does 1900+ headshot damage. Which means, instant death to any player in my range. Oh and my range is 64 meters effectively, not 30. So perhaps you should stop bitching about the pistoleers pumping your ass full of energy blasts.

As far as them nerfing everything, hey thats the way it goes. UO's development team nerfed the shit out of crossbow users and then invented dexers which ate most mages and ranged weapons users up. Then they nerfed mages by adding eval intellect and meditation so they were more specialized. Hahah man.. every fucking game in the history of MMORPGs is going to have a nerf fest through its history. So it bit us in the ass sooner than later.. big deal.
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Postby Wynn on Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:57 pm

Forget the bitching and moaning. Several of us are playing SWG. You can join us or not. We'll try to find other people who are playing this game to join our cause. Maybe if we meet someone cool we can have them join NNN for our next game about 2 years from now.

I'd quit when I don't enjoy it any more, don't have time, or can't afford it too. That's that. If you don't want to play, then don't.
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Postby Hado on Wed Jul 23, 2003 8:14 pm

I agree that the tendency of Dev's to nerf the fuck out of everything these days is lazy and GAY. I bet you $21908124098 that the Dev's don't even play the classes they make changes to. It's an endless cycle of nerfing and complaining, partly because people are too stupid realize that things can be easily fixed without ruining entire professions. One class gets nerfed and then those players get mad at not being able to compete, so they want the other classes nerfed as well. Then it gets into a cycle where everything gets nerfed x 10 and the game feels restrictive and dull.

However, my disliking of this tendency hasn't been enough to ruin my enjoyment of the game. Dueling, doing the whole trade thing, earning money, working on my skills, and to some extent - exploring new places has kept my interest so far. At least I'll have something to sell when Horizons or SWG comes along.

I can imagine how NNN faction hit-and-run raids on a city would be really fun, provided that we could get our group together.

And are you smoking crack or something? When's the last time you actually dueled someone? I've yet to be incapped by a SINGLE pistol user.
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