Let's choose a server before tomorrow

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Let's choose a server before tomorrow

Postby Monster on Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:33 am

Ok, we got three people saying they prefer PVE: Stix, Quickshot and Kemplar. Shoruken is undecided (his deciding factor being where everyone else goes), I don't care anymore (preferred PVP but I'd rather have two more people than be on a PVP server), Kelek doesn't care.

Stix, did you play on a PVE server at all during beta? If so, how often did you see PVP flagged players? I don't want to play on PVE if PVP is rare. I guess you could always instigate PVP by going to enemy lands and killing their NPC's. :)

Once battlegrounds are put in, there really won't be any point to playing on a PVP server though. Here's a good article that Shoruken found that makes a good argument against playing on a PVP server.

As for timezone, I still say Mountain. Everyone else is either in Mountain or Pacific at this point. Stix, is your clan still deciding to play a Pacific server in the off chance your friend in Japan will play? If not, and we choose Mountain, maybe we could all be on the same server.
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Postby Shoruk3n on Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:56 am

It's still too close for me to call. I really don't like the idea of regulated PvP in contested areas, that's just stupid. I also don't like the idea of getting repeatedly jacked by a group of miscreants.

As with all mmos, the guy who plays most wins, especially in WoW's PvP servers. From what I get out of Blizzards ToS, might makes right on PvP servers. A quote from Blizzards Knowledge Base:

"The Ongoing Harassment policy does not apply on the PvP server when there is a PvP resolution available. Characters have the ability to deal with their conflicts through combat and Game Masters will only involve themselves in extreme circumstances.

Actions that would typically be considered “dishonorable actions” such as, but not limited to; corpse camping, graveyard camping, or instance zone camping are considered PvP mechanics and are not considered harassment."


I'm not sure I want to be on a server where some punk can spew bs at me for hours and have my only recourse be a fight. Anyhow, at this point I'm leaning toward pve. I'd like a West server, but Mountain would be fine also.

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Postby Monster on Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:19 pm

Yeah, if this wasn't a level-based MMORPG there's no way I'd go to a PVE server. UO had better PVP than any other MMORPG since, mostly because there were no levels (plus there was the reward of being able to loot your prey). Free PVP just doesn't make much sense in a level-based MMORPG unless there are no artificial restrictions placed on levels. You know how if you try to fight a monster 4 levels higher you will miss at least half the time? That's because they put in an artificial system to prevent you from taking down things much higher than you. In a game where a level would mean nothing more than maybe a new skill, some more HP and MP, PVP would be based more on skill than stats.

Anyway, I guess I vote for PVE.

Me, Kelek, Kemplar and Quickshot (if he wants to hang with us) are all on Mountain. So is RGDelta. I guess it probably doesn't make too much of a difference which timezone we play in. We all played on a Mountain server in beta and it didn't seem to make a difference whether you lived in Canada or Florida, the only time people had lag was when everyone had it.
Last edited by Monster on Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Kemplar on Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:21 pm

Im leaning towards PVE for the same reason. I'm sure when the Battlegrounds are released there will always be PVP available. DAoC is pretty much a PVP game. Thats the point in the end game and their normal servers which are consentual PVP are the most busy. I played on Merlin and Lancelot. I pretty much lvl'd a Mentalist playing exclusivly in the Battlegrounds. I can only assume that WoW's BG's will be similar. I prefer Mountain but West Coast would be alright also.
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Postby Hado on Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:15 pm

That article's pretty old.

Here's how pvp-enabled servers work currently..

There are Alliance, Horde and Contested areas. If you venture into a contested area (almost all the rich/lvl 25+ areas are contested) you can attack or be attacked by anyone.

If you're Horde going into Alliance territory, or vice versa, you can't attack any players unless they flag pvp by attacking you or doing something like rezzing/healing a pvp flagged player (you'll always be flagged for pvp in enemy territories). You can kill their NPC's to your heart's content, though.

Then there are the arenas where anyone, including allied players are attackable, but you respawn.

All the newbie areas (lvl 25 or less) are still safe in PVP, since they're either Alliance or Horde territories.


As for PVE, there's no attacking anyone anywhere unless they flag /PVP.
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Postby Monster on Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:21 pm

We all know this (except for the arena part, I hadn't heard about that). How is this any different from the article?

Are these "arenas" available in PVE?
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Postby Hado on Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:09 pm

By level 25+ all players should have formed their own guilds and alliances. Newbies areas aren't attackable by the other side, so you shouldn't be worried about that at all. By entering the 25+ contested areas you should at least be at a competitive level or ahead of the curve, if not then you should have friends that can help you out. If you play with us then you shouldn't be worried about getting ganked at all.

Anyway, I'm ignoring most of the PVP combat between 1-59, and focusing on lvl 60 pvp since we'll be there soon enough. Also all the other smart guilds on the horde side will be ignoring pvp until 60 as well. Besides, it only took us what, 3.5 days to get our highest players to level 31/32. After that we can help anyone who's low level get caught up.
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Postby Stix on Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:38 pm

On the one hand, regulated PvP can be a pain sometimes. On the other hand, getting ganked by level 60 griefers who don't care about their honor (and I mean literal honor that will come with the honor system) at mid-level can also be a pain.

However, on the PvE server you can still find AvH action. The only time people weren't flagged or willing to fight, usually, was when they were outnumbered, hearthstoning out, or questing. I'd say 75% of people were usually flagged, though. A friend and I would run around with /pvp on through places like Ashenvale and we could find a fight just about every time. The only time we couldn't was during sparse population times--and even then, we were usually looking in the wrong spot (we once came out from Ashenvale without running into anyone and found a raid of Alliance in the Barrens).

On the PvP server, there's no doubt that the contested zones can sometimes be exciting, but they also have their frustrations. Once you reach a certain level, there's no place to level other than in contested zones. And if you started late or it's your second characters, you're bound to run into people higher than you. The honor system is supposed to punish high level players for griefind, but I highly doubt it will stop them from doing it.

Battlegrounds will satisfy the desires of a lot of people for always-flagged and organized PvP on the PvE servers. But it won't have the same surprise factor that the PvP ruleset has in contested areas. They both have their positives and negatives. Personally, I prefer PvE in the longrun (as long as battlegrounds are in). But I also think the PvP ruleset could be good for times when I'm feeling aggressive or pumped up.
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Postby Stix on Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:40 pm

And, yeah, we're planning to go Pacific, as that's been the talk the last day or two on our boards. I have a little less than 24 hours to convince them to possibly go Mountain, if you're definitely going mountain. I'll get back to you. Undoubtedly, however, they want to go PvE over PvP for the main server. If you guys go PvP for your main server, I'll make a character with you guys and split time. If you choose PvE, we should be on the same server.
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Postby Hado on Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:45 pm

They changed the honor system so you only get dishonorable kills for attacking lower level NPC's.

You can attack anyone / defend yourself against anyone without having to worry about honor now.
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Postby Stix on Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:49 pm

Source?

If that's the case... That makes griefing unpunished beyond revenge with your own level 60 or a group of friends/guildmates. Which means it'll happen more often.

I know there are problems with the honor system in how it worked, but they could have made it so that if someone attacks you you'd have a few minutes of impunity from dishonor.
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Postby Hado on Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:06 pm

I dunno, it seems fitting for me in a PVP enabled setting. If it's PVP I'd want it full-on with the least amount of regulations possible, otherwise I might as well play on PVE servers.

I think all the forums are down, I'll ask the guys on Vent when we all get in game tomorrow morning.
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Postby Monster on Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:11 pm

Ok, looks like we've decided on Pacific PVE. Which server? I don't know. We can't say "first on the list" or "last on the list" because that's what everyone else will be saying. Maybe third on the list? Second?

Pacific so we can join up and play with Stix's guild.
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Postby DarkViruz on Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:26 pm

Isn't this slightly hypocritical now?
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Postby Monster on Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:27 pm

How so? Stix was never in NNN. He was always in another clan. As a matter of fact, I said several times that we should have a guild alliance. Instead, you joined another guild altogether.
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