Classes

Talk about things like elves and gnomes. (It's cooler than it sounds.)

Classes

Postby Shoruk3n on Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:51 am

So what does everyone think of their class at this point? My mage feels more fragile than I'd expected, and the damage output is little less than I was hoping it would be. I wasn't expecting to be able to take much damage, but it seems like I get 1-shotted by similiarly leveled PCs alot. I'm still playing with talent builds, and I'm only up to 46, so that may change.

How's your mage Hado?
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Postby Stix on Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:41 pm

Well, frost armor isn't bad for mage. I can absorb a bit of damage before I get taken down. Don't know how well it works at level 60, though.

I'm liking my pally, which is now level 34.
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Postby DarkViruz on Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:48 am

Hado said he'd be away with some friends over the new year so I don't know how long it will be before he responds here/gets sober. Anyway, his mage seems to be the AE powerhouse of the group, or the main damage maker. But supposedly very fragile.


Myself though I was hating warlock until i decided to re-spec into affliction talents, now I must say I'm enjoy it quite a bit. I'm at lvl 41, so I don't know how I'll stack towards the end but I'm taking on horde 7 levels higher then me without using fear and still winning so it's looking good so far.
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Postby -Xanath- on Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:54 am

I've thoroughly enjoyed my rogue thus far; apparently, I'm doing something right. I was reported by the entirety of one of our server's highest guilds for "having a phase shift hack" - whilst I've hardly a clue of what that means, I'd have to assume it has something to do with my wtfpwn1ng about a dozen of them in duels and never dropping below half.

By the way Rob, I can hardly one-shot a competent mage (levels 60 vs 60) - but so long as I get the jump and/or they screw up along the line somewhere, I win.


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Postby Hado on Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:00 pm

What are you specced in Rob?

I've tried pretty much every mage build out there and there's only one that makes mages a viable class vs good players (almost on par with paladins, shamans and priests).

Going ice is pretty much useless, unless you're doing large scale pvp. The mana efficiency is highly overrated, and the freeze procs don't work in the high level instances. For large pvp groups ice mages are a necessity (for blizzards/freeze procs and mass snares, though you still only really need one).

I'll get down to it: Going full fire / combustion line (and any other build, really) is worthless compared to what you can do with Arcane Power.

1vs1 I can drop anyone in 4-6 seconds without any possibility of counterattack as long as I get my opener off. Against zergs or groups of monsters I have the highest DPS build in the game bar none. All of it is burst damage though, so after I dump (pretty much all my battles are decided within 15 seconds) it's usually followed by a minute or two of downtime. Damage over a period of say, 10 minutes in PVP, I'm about even with Xanath simply because I'm trying to find a way to get out of combat and drink 85% of the time.

Oh and if you don't have a priest / healer supporting you it kills your DPS in a massive way (more deaths, corpse running, less time to cast/mana dump).
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Postby Wynn on Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:44 pm

Post your build (or a link to a submitted wowvault template that is similar to yours). And, is your build viable for PvE soloing and/or groups or focused on PvP?

Just asking cuz I have a newbie mage I'm gonna play off and on myself.
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Holy Specced Paladin

Postby Stix on Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:10 pm

Since release, I've heard people talk about how paladins have great DPS for a tank. Sub-40, there is no doubt that a paladin has great DPS and tanking abilities (even after the recent seal of the crusader "fix"). However, at level 60, a warrior owns the shit out of a paladin's DPS and ability to take damage, even a paladin specced in retribution. Yes, they can have holy shield, but in order to make decent use of it they have to hold aggro, something that is difficult to do without consecration. And holy shield is a huge mana drain. They also have seal of command, but the proccing is based on luck and the damage still doesn't compare to a warrior.

So what role does a paladin play? End-game, paladin is a support class in both PvE and PvP... tride and true. Yes, they are still excellent duellers in the end-game, but that's not the main focus of the game for most people. If you're into the dueling scene and think paladins are too overpowered in that area, then just don't duel them. Anymore nerfing to the paladin for the sake of what you experience in dueling one will make them below the level of a shaman and create an imbalance (population imbalance considerations aside).

Anyhow, I will speak of the PvE side first. Our buffs can help a group ten-fold. I would say we are even on par with a priest in the buffing department for PvE. Giving your healers and high-DPS, non-tanking groupmates a blessing of salvation (-30% threat) will lessen the chance of wiping ten-fold. As long as classes that need to avoid aggro are allowed to deal more damage and/or do more healing without acquiring aggro, the group is much more powerful. Giving your warrior a blessing of might or blessing of kings can provide him or her with a boost in DPS (and more for blessing of kings), as well, providing them with a better chance to hold aggro. Judging with a seal of wisdom allows your casting classes the ability to leech mana off of something during times when they aren't casting or when they are low on mana. And judging with a seal of light can provide decent healing for melee classes, though I tend to use seal of wisdom exclusively in groups because it provides me and my main healer (if we have one) with more mana for healing. Having the ability to throw heals around in emergency situations is a good help for when the main healer cannot keep up or for when he or she would take the aggro if he or she healed anymore than they have already. Blessing of protection can be used to save your main healer from death and can allow an AOE caster, especially mages with talents that give them an instant cast arcane explosion, a chance to go nuts for 10 seconds without taking physical damage. Cleanse is one of our greatest spells--it can dispel one negative magic, poison and disease effect in one cast (if someone has one effect of each type, it'll dispel all of those). Additionally, you can prevent a wipe by using divine intervention on a rezzer when death is certain for everyone in the group (if you time it right and they are standing away from where the mobs would stand out-of-combat).

Solo-wise, things get tougher later on. Sub-40, it seems as though paladins are god-like. But at 60, it's not as easy. A paladin can take a fairly long time to kill things, compared to other classes, especially if you are not specced in retribution or don't have holy shield. You rely on healing yourself a lot. We still do excel at escaping when things get too rough, though it is nearly impossible to escape caves, dungeons and buildings with a lot of mobs.

PvP-wise our role is more awkward. I find myself sitting back, healing, cleansing, casting blessing of freedom and blessing of protection and fending off people that come after our cloth wearers. Blessing of salvation is obviously useless in PvP, so blessing of wisdom, blessing of kings and blessing of light are the only benefits to our casters. Blessing of wisdom is decent, but it only provides 360-432 extra mana per minute (depending on if you have improved blessing of wisdom)--and with fights that can be decided in very little time, that's not that much help. When we are the target of attack, divine shield is an excellent thing. However, hunters, mages, warlocks, shadow-specced priests and especially elemental/combat shamans have great offensive abilities against paladins. Our best bet is to stay out of their range, but that is a hard thing to do. While we can dispel a lot of their debuffs, it's still hampering to be affected by them for any amount of time. Curse of exhaustion is the most annoying thing ever if a mage does not remove it when it's on us, however. And having limited range abilities (none without holy shock, which is at the end of the holy talent tree) makes actually venturing into battle difficult, especially against ranged classes. The only time I will charge a decent-sized group is when my shield isn't in cooldown mode. And my objective for that is usually to try to stun a priest or druid and take a little bit of health off them so whoever I'm with can take them out as fast as possible. The strategy is a lot more difficult than people make it out to be when the levels are balanced. People who think paladins are gods with insane damage and constant god-mode are below level 40 or don't take the time to actually compare a paladin's abilities at level 60 to other classes in PvP situations other than dueling. Most people don't even know that our judgments can be dispelled from our enemies and that even active seals on a paladin can be dispelled by certain classes.

Anyway, those are my observations at level 60. Hope there's someone here still playing that'd be interested in my assessment of the paladin.
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Yo!

Postby Shoruk3n on Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:03 pm

Well I must say I've changed my opinion about being a mage. At level 41 I own the hell out of just about every class I've had exposure to. If I can get a fireball off before my opponent notices me, the battle is over before it even begins. I haven't fought another mage or a priest yet, at least one I considered good, so I'm not sure how I'd fare against them.

If you're wondering how I went from 49 to 41, it's because I started playing on Crushridge with some RL buddies. That's also the reason I haven't been around for all this time. After getting a taste of a PvP server, I don't think I'll ever go back. The fun factor is increased 10x over PvE, at least imo. How's everyone else faring?
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Postby DarkViruz on Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:07 pm

Warlocks are the best PvP class.
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Re: Yo!

Postby Stix on Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:58 pm

Shoruk3n wrote:After getting a taste of a PvP server, I don't think I'll ever go back.

The first BG (Alterac Valley) will be implemented before mid-2005, so you know.
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Postby Shoruk3n on Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:13 pm

The first BG (Alterac Valley) will be implemented before mid-2005, so you know.


Mass PvP funness has been enabled since launch! W0ot!

Although battlegrounds sounds fun.
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Postby Stix on Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:12 am

Well, it seems to me that Blizzard is going to be putting 99% of their effort concerning PvP content into the area of battlegrounds. I have a strong feeling that the action in the mainland areas of PvP servers will die down dramatically when BG's are implemented. This is why I've chosen to stay on the PvE ruleset primarily, though I have a shaman on a PvP server I play from time-to-time. But I guess if you need your fix right now or feel like ganking lowbies and protecting your own now and then, then go right ahead and enjoy yourself. But I'm going wait for the PvP with some real content-supported substance. =)
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Postby Shoruk3n on Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:26 pm

Ganking lowbies is absolutely no fun at all. Most of my time spent in PvP is small group battles of 3 or so. That's where the fun is. Nothing more fun that fighting against an equally leveled group of players for a locale for farming etc.
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Postby Monster on Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:25 pm

That sounds pretty fun.
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