My idea for a new game

[Monster]

A team-based, light RPG skirmish game. Think of a game that's part Counterstrike, part Battlefield: Etc, part Nox, part JKO, part Mordheim, and part D&D. Each team would have a number of adventurers in adventure-based levels. One could be in a dungeon, another in a medieval town, and another in some ruins in the forest, whatever.

The object would be gaining treasure. Perhaps you need to steal treasure from the other party (warband, etc) (kind of like CTF), perhaps you need to protect treasure from the opposing party (like in the Battlefield series). Perhaps the treasure you obtain can be used, like a magic sword or wand (or maybe this kind of stuff is around the battlefield like in Nox). Maybe one of the modes could be "Artifact", where you need to obtain all the artifacts around the field, and each artifact is really powerful, where another mode could be infiltration style where you need to go into the opposition's base and steal their gold and jewels.

There would be a number of classes to choose from, similar to Nox and D&D. There would be a warrior class, obviously, who is the best at straightforward fighting. There would be a wizard class (possibly more than one kind, like in Nox... wizard/conjurer). There would also be a thief class... more versatile than the others (for instance, could use weapons better than the wizard, and some magic items warriors can't use), with the ability to hide in shadows and do massive damage when attacking from behind. Maybe even the ability to scale walls with a grappling hook or something. Perhaps a cleric class who would be second only to the warrior with fighting. Or maybe the cleric could be more powerful than the warrior but the warrior is more dexterous or something.

Combat would be deep as in JKO, and strategic as in Nox. Instead of just a single swing with the sword, there could be different moves just as in JKO. Wizards could have all sorts of cool spells, such as damage spells, utility spells (such as a kind of Force push or pull), buff spells and more, with a spellbook that allows key bindings, as in Nox. Perhaps we could even have conjuring.

There may even be leveling up in the game. In many team-based games there’s little reason to kill unless you are defending or attacking a base. In this game we might make it so you gain experience after every kill, with a quick level-up option. Perhaps you can configure your character before the game so that leveling is instant and you gain whatever you chose beforehand so you don’t need to stop playing to level.

I think the Half Life 2 engine would be perfect for a game like this. We could make a mod. What do you guys think? We’d obviously have to recruit some people but I think it could be great.

[Wynn]

With all your "maybes" it seems like a shotgun blast at a giant target called "WIKKID GAEM" and that's what you got.

I think you need to focus on one specific game type first and sell that idea, and then expand more as you go. Right now I'm having a hard time visualizing this game, as it is so nebulous.

Is this ultimately a FPS? Or a 3rd person isometric game like nox? Or some kind of hybrid like guild wars?

Why are you raiding another team's castle just to steal their gold? That's kinda lame. If you're raiding a castle, it's to kill them and take their entire castle so you rule the land.

Levelups have balance implications. In Nox, everybody was the same level and so the only difference is in equipment and skillz. In your game, if you play a lot and suck, you'll still be better than a skilled noob. That could easily deter new players.

[Monster]

There has to be maybes. Without maybes you have every other dev under the sun that promises the moon but gives you a bowl of ice cream.

The game would be based on the gameplay of squad-based team games like Counterstrike or a smaller scale Battlefield: 1942. Therefore it would be 1st/3rd person (depending on user preference). It's based on adventuring parties, not armies, so it would be a few adventurers vs a few adventurers, and there would not be castles to storm. As I said, the levels are based on adventure-type locales (such as a dungeon). You're fighting over treasure because that's what adventurers do. Don't you play D&D? Treasure is what drives adventurers. Sure, in most RPG's you don't encounter other adventuring parties so much as monsters and crap. But in this game it's warband VS warband... if you know anything about Mordheim, and I'm guessing you don't, it's kind of like that.

There's a ruined town called Mordheim where these magical stones are. They're littered throughout the city because a meteor made out of the stuff hit the city, and now small groups of adventuring parties, named warbands, are out to get as much of the rocks as possible. There are different races, thus there are different driving forces behind the search. Skaven worship the stuff basically. The Imperials want it for profit and power. Then there's some holy group who thinks it's evil and wants to destroy it. In any case, it's adventuring parties facing off against each other for profit. That's what this game would be about.

As for levelling, it would only be per round. There would be no persistent characters. Just like Battlefield; 1942 or whatever, you can choose a new class between games with no consequence. You could even set up the server so each game is best 2 out of 3 and levels carry over, but once the next game starts you lose everything that's not starting equipment and go back to level 1. As you know, I'm an opponent of levelling in persistent games.

[Wynn]

I know there are maybes that mean you can't promise it yet. I was just suggesting you chop out some of those maybes for now and just focus on a core game. You can add back in the other ideas later as it progresses.

Ok so see with that background info it's more interesting. It's not nebulous treasure at that point. It's a specific thing that significant meaning. Those power stones. You could make some fun game types based purely off that concept.

[Monster]

I don't think the background story is nearly as important as the concept in games like this. I think "two adventuring parties fighting over treasure" is good enough. Ok, maybe the treasure could be powerful stones, but they could just as easily be magical artifacts or ancient scrolls. I mean, why were we fighting in Nox? Why were we fighting in JKO? Why is a stormtrooper with a lightsaber kicking Han Solo clones off cliffs? All we need is the concept ("Jedi fighting each other") and then gameplay. In Nox you weren't even fighting over treasure. You were just fighting. Or in CTF, you were fighting over a flag. Was it a magic flag? Do the arcane laws of the region state that if you lose that flag to your castle it becomes property of the government? Nobody knows, nobody cares. It's all about the concept and the gameplay. Sure, we could throw together a quick story behind the conflict, but I'd say the main driving force is greed and power.

[Wynn]

Yeah when you put it that way, these games seem really boring. (And usually I think they are)

However, the most popular game in the genre is arguably Counterstrike, and there is a specific purpose for each team there.

[Monster]

You thought Nox or JKO were boring?

And there's no story behind Counterstrike either. Terrorists vs SWAT. I'd call that a concept.

I think Counterstrike is the most popular because it was pretty much the first squad-based multiplayer game and has good gameplay (I guess). Anyway, no one has ever made a game like the one I am presenting.

[Wynn]

You have a nice idea. It just needs a couple changes. Like instead of warriors, you should have Pimps. Their primary attack is a gold-ringed backhand. Instead of wizards you should have Robot Pirates, and they can shoot flamethrowers and lasers out of their eye sockets. Instead of thieves you should have Ninjas. And instead of clerics, you should have Whores, who give teammates a BJ to heal them. And when a Pimp backhands a Whore, she loses her top and you can see her nippies. And when a Robot Pirate shoots his flamethrower, the Ninja can catch on fire. And they run around the level and pick up pellets instead of treasure. And they can be power pellets instead of artifacts, and if they pick one of those up, they can turn around a gobble the ghosts chasing them. Oh yeah and you can play as a ghost too that lets you walk through walls. I think your game would be cool then.

[Monster]

HAW HAW HAW

[DarkViruz]

You sound like you're describing Guild Wars. Isn't that scary?

[Monster]

It wouldn't be anything like Guild Wars. Guild Wars has nowhere near the action of the game I'm envisioning. Plus it wouldn't be a persistent world.

[DarkViruz]

I'm basing your ideas solely on multiplayer. Multiplayer-wise you cannot even begin to claim there is not near enough action.

[Hado]

What you were describing in your first post is a lot like GW.
All the gametypes you mentioned are already in the alpha.

Rather than separate attacks in JKO you have skills that you pick before the match.

I think the only thing missing from GW is skill dependant/manual aiming, but that wouldn't be possible unless everyone playing had <150 ping. The positioning, timing, countering needed in action games, it's all there in GW.
You can even dodge projectiles like in FPS games.

If GW had more FPS/fighting game freedom with jumping, manual weapon swinging, manual bow usage etc it would be perfect. But then all the pure MMO/RPG players would complain about it being too hard and fast..oh well.
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[Monster]

Ok, the game might sound like GW, but with the ability to jump and climb (and other cool tricks like in JKO), manual aiming/swinging (again, combat similar to JKO), small arenas like in most FPS's, and without persistent characters/levelling. It would be closer to JKO and Nox than GW. GW is more like a Diablo/slightly Nox mix. You can't even leave the ground in GW, and there is no sword combat beyond clicking a button. My game would be like an FPS but 3rd person like JKO (sword fighting is easier that way), with bows, swords and magic instead of guns. Fighting would be purely skill, like in Nox or JKO. Just think high acrobatic action like JKO with a deep magic system like Nox, with counters and stuff. Although I envision even more maneuverability than in JKO; the ability to grab onto ledges, for example.

BTW, are you sure the gametypes I mentioned are in GW? There's actually a mode where you have to fight over treasure? Treasure that you specifically have to run out and find?

And I never said there is not "near enough action" in GW. I said GW would not have near as much action as my game. It's a simple fact that an action game vs. a roleplaying type game would have more action (hopefully).

[Wynn]

I like Monster's game better. I'd love to play Pimps and Hos, and see ninjas on fire.